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Старый 11.10.2015, 02:46   #1
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По умолчанию Retention/ Sex

Hi!

There is a lot of information about semen retention, sex, etc. And a lot of contradictions.

What is the point of view of the school about this? And how this afects the practice of Daogong?

What do you think? I'd like to read the opinions of everybody.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 09:53   #2
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That's a good question, I would like to hear some explanations and tips too.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 12:24   #3
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Here is the point of view of a modern Daoist on a question related to this topic.

Цитата:
"Question-Answer about the two kinds of Jing

Question: "In the Taoist practice, when it's time to " pick the remedy "(cai yao) to transform it into a cinnabar pill (lian dan), it is important to use Qi and not Jing. What is the difference between the two?

Answer: "This question is important and should be clearly analyzed. You should know that Jing and Qi have a common source. Qi is the source of Jing, it turns into Jing. The Qi we are talking about is the pre-celestial Qi ,called Original Qi 元 炁 (yuan qi). After Original Qi is transformed into Jing, it is divided into two types: the first type of Jing is Original Jing 元 精 (yuan jing) which has no form and no shape, it is devoid of any Post-celestial substances. To gather it (or harvest it) allows to generate cinnabar. Alchemical texts calls it "pure water source" (qing shui yuan). The second type is the Post-celestial Jing, it is made of substance, it has a form and a shape. Alchemical texts call it " turbid water source" (chong shui yuan). With the latter type of Jing we can't generate cinnabar. If one stubbornly tries, it will generate an "illusory cinnabar" 幻 丹 (Huan Dan) which is meant to be lost anyway.

Some Taoists do not know the difference between the two types of Jing. They think that to cultivate Jing is to cultivate semen, and if when there is desire semen is not emitted, it returns inside and adds to what is called a "fire of thoughts." Not knowing that semen is a Post-celestial substance not only it will strengthen the fire, but in addition it can not be cultivated to generate Genuine Qi (zhen qi). The Wuzhen Pian 悟真 篇 (Zhang Ziyang) said: "What is visible should not be used, which that can be used should not be visible." Once semen returns inside, it goes into the bladder rather than in the Dan Tian and it will not take long before it is emitted with urine.

When Taoists say " cultivate Jing to change into Qi", the Jing they are talking about is the Pre-celestial Original Jing. To cultivate it and change it, means that we make the Original spirit 元 神 (yuan shen) and the Original Qi (yuan qi) mix together and we nurture them until they freeze without dissolving and becomes the "cinnabar".
Trying to get something out from semen retention is not only useless it is also dangerous for health.

From my experience with Dao Gong, so far i found that things like sexual activity, diet, activity, rest, thoughts, emotions, sleep etc are being naturally regulated without any intent to change something from my part, just need to practice seriously according to the instructions of the teacher and positive results come by themselves.

Semen retention on the contrary will lead to sickness of body and mind, so i guess that if someone is practicing semen retention along with Dao Gong it will take out all the benefits for physical and mental health that Dao Gong can bring about.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 13:06   #4
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Post natal jing can be either released of transformed back into pre-natal but only for longevity and feeling more healthful and vibrant.

There are tree ways, either you release by sex or it will find it own ways out by urine, or you transform it back, with proper transformation there will be no ejaculate but just dry orgasm, which is still leakage of Qi if I understand properly.

It is as the quote says but post-natal jing can have health benefit on the body and mind if properly used.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 15:17   #5
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Сообщение от Christian Посмотреть сообщение
Post natal jing can be either released of transformed back into pre-natal but only for longevity and feeling more healthful and vibrant.
This is in my opinion precisely the problem with illusory elixir, it makes people feel good and extraordinary but to get these effects you need to burn a ressource, the same as discussed in the thread "why sitting meditation is bad?".

It's a widespread delusion that sexual Jing can be transformed back into Yuan Jing, to replenish Yuan Jing you need Yuan Jing and not something else. Modern deviations want to make people trust that they can achieve Dao results with their degenerated practices working with sexual Jing but Daoist scriptures are very clear about it, for instance see what Wu Zhen Pian says: "Vainly shutting the coccyx opening in the bedroom has deluded thouroughly so many people on earth." Isn't that clear?

I know your are talking only about "longevity and feeling more healthful and vibrant" but even these goals can't be achieved through "sexual Jing cultivation", instead of resulting into health and longevity these practices will lead the practionner to more imbalances, deviations and over spending of Yuan Qi.
In my opinion to cultivate health it's better to study the post celestial methods of genuine Nei Dan schools because these schools truely know how to protect Ming.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 19:10   #6
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That not true, I know that Wu zhen Pian explaning thing clearly, but you must understand that jing is leaking, either you burn it properly and transform it or it will leak anyway so how is this can be harmful? It's not harmful and it's not burning anything besides jing for vitality, that's all. I don't know what is view on this school about it but it's not harmful unless the ejaculation is harmful, but this is reversing harmful effect. So what you saying have no basis besides that it will not create immortal spirit only make u live longer as human immortal.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 19:33   #7
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Also after first session of Daogong I could manipulate my energy at will which never happen before, when I had exciment for example of sexual energy most people cannot just by mere will dissolve it back to natural non-hormonal state, I just by the intention or will could just move it back to the place so to speak, like a hand or leg, so I think if someone wants master own sexuality and be in power of it not be controlled by it, it's just matter of controlling of ones Qi, this never happen before to me to able control this type of Qi it always goes it's own way no matter what.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 22:28   #8
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Сообщение от Christian Посмотреть сообщение
Post natal jing can be either released of transformed back into pre-natal but only for longevity and feeling more healthful and vibrant.

There are tree ways, either you release by sex or it will find it own ways out by urine, or you transform it back, with proper transformation there will be no ejaculate but just dry orgasm, which is still leakage of Qi if I understand properly.

It is as the quote says but post-natal jing can have health benefit on the body and mind if properly used.
Post-natal can never be transformed into pre-natal. This is a central notion in internal alchemy.

Pre-natal energy is the voltage across the circuit of your body, your energy centers and physical components like the dan tien and the kidneys are a post-natal storage capacitor that receives current from the pre-natal battery.

If you indulge the senses, especially sexual sense, then your post-natal capacitor supplies the current and consequently voltage is reduced, which must be refilled by pre-natal battery. You could potentially reintegrate post-natal components, like protein in semen (even though you would more likely just urinate it out), to recover post-natal capacitor voltage, but you can never cross the divide between the manifested (post-natal) and the unmanifested (pre-natal), almost per definition.

Understand also that any physical sense involvement spends the post-natal energy, which in turn spends pre-natal energy. That is why the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin are called the five thieves. And then any sexual feeling, even before semen is produced, will especially steal energy.

You can know if energy is stolen by assessing whether you are moving in the direction of Nature, or against it. If you are involving yourself in the physical world, through sensing, and through the biological drive of procreation and sex, you are moving definitely with the powerful currents of Nature.

Those who go against the direction of Nature subtract their consciousness from the five thieves, with observation of Ming, and they are the few brave who can ignore the siren song of Nature.

Look at this quote:
"When you renounce nature you find that she takes an interest in you. When you renounce her a little more, she begins to chase you. And when you finally don't care for her at all, she becomes your slave." - Vivekananda

What is he saying? Nature and the manifested reality around you begins to warp, almost like in the Matrix, if you have the powerful creative energy (sufficient post-natal jing/qi) to try and 'trick' you into spending your energy in nature.

So if you preserve your energy, your physical and psychological characteristics begin to become naturally more attractive, and the opposite sex begins to notice you more. And the more your energy builds up the more your environment will try and take that energy, and the more opportunities for procreation will present itself.

This is why it's difficult to go against Nature, but if you work intelligently and with determination you can avoid temptation.

Of course, some would rightly say that it is not necessary to abstain from procreation, if it is done within the energetic budget.
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Старый 11.10.2015, 22:44   #9
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@Francis

I can agree with you mostly with all, because I saw this in own experiences of happenings and events about the nature which I could deduce it.

but about jing and recovering it I have a little doubt, even if it's not recovering to the pre-natal state it's still can be recovered to the state which seems to imitate pre-natal.

Let's say somebody do this by melting jing into vitality and longevity, he looks like 30-40 years but he is 120 years or even more, what would be factor from taoist point of view of his longevity in this process?
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Старый 12.10.2015, 02:15   #10
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Сообщение от Jeremias Посмотреть сообщение
Hi!

There is a lot of information about semen retention, sex, etc. And a lot of contradictions.

What is the point of view of the school about this? And how this afects the practice of Daogong?
In the beginning the recommendation is to keep normal, natural frequency, without any special retentions or "sexual practices". If there are any deviations because of the life style or other practices, then they will gone after proper Daogong practice.
Михаил Федоров вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
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