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"Дао Дэ"
Желая водрузить Дао Дэ за предѣлами тысячъ ли, я не боялся ни вѣтра, ни пыли, шествуя къ девяти варварскимъ народамъ.
Сначала я ѣхалъ на сѣверо-западъ...
 
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Старый 18.05.2015, 10:34   #1
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По умолчанию Chapter 1. Various translations into English

some translations to compare. Please post whatever versions you find valuable or interesting.

James Legge:

The Dao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Dao.
The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name. (Conceived of as) having no name, it is the Originator of heaven and earth; (conceived of as) having a name, it is the Mother of all things.
Always without desire we must be found,
If its deep mystery we would sound;
But if desire always within us be,
Its outer fringe is all that we shall see.
Under these two aspects, it is really the same; but as development takes place, it receives the different names. Together we call them the Mystery. Where the Mystery is the deepest is the gate of all that is subtle and wonderful.

Thomas Cleary, 1991

A way can be a guide, but not a fixed path; names can be given, but not permanent labels.
Nonbeing is called the beginning of heaven and earth; being is called the mother of all things.
Always passionless, thereby observe the subtle; ever intent, thereby observe the apparent.
These two come from the same source but differ in name;
both are considered mysteries. The mystery of mysteries is the gateway of marvels.

Wieger
The principle that can be enunciated is not the one that always was. The being that can be named is not the one that was at all times.
Before time there was an ineffable, unnameable being. When it was still unnameable, it conceived heaven and earth. When it had thus become nameable, it gave birth to the multitude of beings.
These two acts are but one, under two different denominations.
The unique act of generation; that is the mystery of the beginning; the effects.

Stephen Mitchell
The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

John C. H. Wu
TAO can be talked about, but not the Eternal Tao.
Names can be named, but not the Eternal Name.

As the origin of heaven-and-earth, it is nameless:
As "the Mother" of all things, it is nameable.

So, as ever hidden, we should look at its inner essence:
As always manifest, we should look at its outer aspects.

These two flow from the same source, though differently
named;
And both are called mysteries.

The Mystery of mysteries is the Door of all essence.

Ellen Marie Chen
Tao that can be spoken of,
Is not the Everlasting (ch'ang) Tao.
Name that can be named,
Is not the Everlasting (ch'ang) name.
Nameless (wu-ming), the origin (shih) of heaven and earth;
Named (yu-ming), the mother (mu) of ten thousand things.
Alternate,
Non-being (wu), to name (ming) the origin (shih) of heaven and earth;
Being (yu), to name (ming) the mother of ten thousand things.
Therefore, always (ch'ang) without desire (wu-yü),
In order to observe (kuan) the hidden mystery (miao);
Always (ch'ang) with desire (yu-yü),
In order to observe the manifestations (chiao).
Alternate,
Therefore, by the Everlasting (ch'ang) Non-Being (wu),
We desire (yü) to observe (kuan) its hidden mystery (miao);
By the Everlasting (ch'ang) Being (yu),
We desire (yü) to observe the manifestations (chiao).
These two issue from the same origin,
Though named differently.
Both are called the dark (hsüan).
Dark and even darker,
The door to all hidden mysteries (miao).

Gia-fu Feng and Jane English
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.
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Старый 31.05.2015, 18:59   #2
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Derek Lin

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things
Thus, constantly free of desire
One observes its wonders
Constantly filled with desire
One observes its manifestations
These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders

Последний раз редактировалось Emmanuel; 31.05.2015 в 19:08.
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Старый 02.06.2015, 03:57   #3
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Derek Lin
Thanks. It's a good exercise to compare different translations, every author has put something personal, but the depth of understanding depends on the level of practical achievements. So basically even the best English versions just uncover the first level, the most "direct" and obvious.

It would be interesting to see some comments made by Western scholars. As we can see, comments can say more then just bare translations.
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Старый 02.06.2015, 06:33   #4
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It would be interesting to see some comments made by Western scholars. As we can see, comments can say more then just bare translations.
Here is a link to the translation, interpretation, notes and translation notes made by Derek Lin for the first chapter.

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Старый 02.06.2015, 15:22   #5
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I can't find online a work made by a western scholar and freely accessible.
Does anybody has a source?
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Старый 28.07.2015, 00:27   #6
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Here is a paper by a western scholar:

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Something about the author:

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Please move the post if here is not the right thread.

Последний раз редактировалось Emmanuel; 28.07.2015 в 00:34.
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Старый 02.08.2015, 21:34   #7
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По умолчанию chapter 1

It is my understanding that DDJ begins with a kind of a linguistic joke in the classical Chinese. The part that is translated (loosely) as "the name that can be named is not the real name. It is a play on words in the classical Chinese, although I can't remember exactly what the joke was.


I always took chapter 1 to mean that "Dao" is a construct of language. Talking about Dao isn't Dao. Experiencing Dao is required. Talk can only help you to find a way to experience Dao.


For example: My friend and I go to the seaside. My friend goes into the water before I do. I ask my friend how the water is. My friend replies that the water is cold. I won't "really" know the water is cold until I experience it.
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Старый 03.08.2015, 22:39   #8
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It is my understanding that DDJ begins with a kind of a linguistic joke in the classical Chinese. The part that is translated (loosely) as "the name that can be named is not the real name. It is a play on words in the classical Chinese, although I can't remember exactly what the joke was.


I always took chapter 1 to mean that "Dao" is a construct of language. Talking about Dao isn't Dao. Experiencing Dao is required. Talk can only help you to find a way to experience Dao.
I think if Lao Zi would want to just say that Dao is impossible to express by words, he explained it in one sentence. And many comments would just repeat that. But the meaning is more deep, there are many layers, riddles and things that can be clear after practical accomplishment. What you say is correct, in general, but there is much more even in the first chapter.
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Старый 14.01.2017, 01:16   #9
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Here is another translation by Dennis Waller:

The Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao

The names that are given do not contain their true meaning

Within the nameless is the true meaning

What is named has a mother and she is the mother of ten thousand things

The un-seeable is always seeable within the internal to those who are not bound by desire

Those who live in a state of desire see only the external illusion of manifestation

These two opposites are born from the same source

The source contains its mystery in darkness

Within the darkness is the darkness that is the gateway to the mysteries
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